- Detroit EM Kevyn Orr (r) appointed by Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder (l) under PA 436, discusses bankruptcy filing at press conference July 19, 2013. Photo by Diane Bukowski
A coalition of organizations is asking Detroiters and their supporters to pack U.S. Bankruptcy Court at 231 W. Fort Mon. Jan 13, at 9 a.m., for the closing arguments on the swaps giveaway to Bank of America, UBS. For further info: https://www.facebook.com/#!/events/503611456421560/
Jerome Goldberg questions EM Kevyn Orr over giveaway to Bank of America, UBS, on Jan. 3, 2014
(VOD story on Orr’s direct testimony coming shortly. This transcript is from http://detroitdebtmoratorium.org/jerome-goldberg-questions-em-kevyn-orr-over-giveaway-to-bank-of-america-ubs-on-jan-3-2014/)
January 6, 2014
Attorney Jerome Goldberg, appearing on behalf of City of Detroit retiree David Sole, questions Emergency Manager Kevyn Orr regarding the interest rate swaps deal, viewed by many as another gift to the very banks that destroyed Detroit’s neighborhoods using subprime mortgages and that have been charged and convicted of fraud of all sorts.
Click on image to launch audio
Unofficial transcript:
Orr trial cross by JG.01032014
Unofficial transcript from audio file by KH
- Attorney Jerome Goldberg, who represents city retiree David Sole in bankruptcy hearings. March 26, 2012 Photo by Diane Bukowski
Jerome Goldberg appearing for Interested Party David Sole.
JG: For the court ordered mediation for December 23 and 24, isn’t it true that Judge Rosen mandated that the parties have individuals there with settlement authority?
KO: Yes.
JG: And isn’t it true that you testified in your deposition that in fact Judge Rosen informed you that the banks did not have anyone there with settlement authority on December 23rd?
KO: Yes, at least one of them, yes.
JG: And that he had threatened to hold them in contempt of court just to get them to agree to this settlement, is that not true?
KO: He threatened to enter a default judgment.
- Barclays and UBS AG, one of the original lenders in the Detroit $1.5 billion Pension Obligation Certificates predatory loan of 2005-06 and in related swaps, have both been charged with massive fraud in numerous venues globally, related to manipulation of the London-Interbank-Offered Rate (LIBOR) interest rates.
JG: I apologize. A default judgment. Just to be clear, this $165 million termination loan with Barclays, was subject to similar terms to the original swap termination loan?
KO: Yes.
JG: So the interest rate would be anywhere from 5.5 to 8.5 percent?
KO: Yes, whatever was on the chart. Yes.
JG: Once bankruptcy is over and the loan becomes due the interest rate goes up an extra 2 percent, right?
KO: well there’s a mechanism by which the interest rate can go up, yes.
JG: So it can go up from 5.5 up to 8.5 percent, right?
KO: Yes if that’s the math, right.
JG: And the loan is secured against income tax revenue?
KO: Yes.
JG: And that amounts to about $4 million per year, correct?
KO: Yes.

Protesters rally against swap deal outside Coleman A. Young Municipal Center Oct. 21, 2013. The City Council then voted not to approve the deal.
JG: And do you recall that in the city’s motion, the city’s income tax revenue for this year, pledge secured against income tax revenue and in fact that amounts to $48 million per year, $4 million per month times 12, right?
KO: Yes.
JG: Do you recall that in the city’s motion it said the city’s income this year was approximately $232 million?
KO: If that was in the motion, I’ll stand by it, yes.
JG: So what we’re taking about basically is that for the next four years about 20 percent of income tax revenue will go to pay off this deal with UBS and Bank of America through Barclays, is that not correct?
KO: Roughly, yes.
JG: And in fact $165 million at 8.5 percent interest would be approximately $30 million in interest, up to $195 million over the next four years and city tax revenues will be diverted to pay off Bank of America and UBS through Barclays?
KO: It could, yes.
JG: OK. And in fact, those payments will be going on long after you’re done as emergency manager and have left Detroit, is that not true?
KO: There’s an expectation that there would be an exit facility financed.
JG: But as of now there’s no exit facility in place.
KO: That is correct.
JG: In contrast, I believe the testimony in both depositions was that the swap payments, the hedging payments from 2008 to 2012 totaled $247 million?
KO: Approximately that amount of money.
JG: I could show you the deposition, but we’re in the ballpark?
KO: Yes, mmhmm.
JG: And 2013 would be about another $45 million to $50 million. Is that a fair statement?
KO: That’s a fair statement.
JG: So we’re talking about $300 million having been paid to UBS and Bank of America since 2008 on the hedging derivatives, on the interest rate swaps.
KO: Since when?
JG: Since 2008.
KO: Roughly that amount.
JG: And in addition to that, if the City was successful in its litigation, in recovering, in getting the swaps declared void ab initio as you testified, potentially that amount could be recovered, correct?
KO: Yes.
JG: And in fact any termination amounts moving forward, in the neighborhood of $200 million, could be eliminated?
KO: Yes.
JG: So rather than paying $165 million, we could be recovering up to $300 million?
KO: Yes.
JG: I want to go into a little bit, and you testified quite well, about the claims the city is making. One of them is fraud based on problems with the Libor as documented relative to UBS, is that not correct?
KO: Yes.

$1.5 billion UBS/SBS POC debt pushed on Detroit City Council Jan. 31, 2005 by (l to r) former Detroit CFO Sean Werdlow, now COO of SBS, Bill Doherty of SBS, Joe O-Keefe of Fitch Ratings, Stephen Murphy of Standard and Poor’s, and former Deputy Mayor Anthony Adams, during Kilpatrick administration. Photo: Diane Bukowski
JG: Another one was that the counterparties, and I’m talking about the equitable claims, about fraud, breach of contract based on implied breach of the fair dealing, and unjust enrichment claims. And another that the counterparties had superior knowledge to the city when they entered into this complex financial transaction with the city and had a duty to make it clear to the city?
KO: Yes.
JG: That they misrepresented that there was a low risk of default and termination in connection with swaps?
KO: Yes.
JG: That they did not explain to the city the potential dangers that a termination event would mean for the city, that they could have called in tens of millions or hundreds of millions in interest payments, correct?
KO: Interest payments and the termination fee, yes, correct.
JG: And the city was a ticking bomb, as you described it, based on a lowering of the city’s bond rating based on the city’s financial history?
KO: Yes.
JG: Are you aware that representatives of Fitch rating service and Standard & Poors were at the table when the swaps were being voted on or being debated in city council?
KO: I didn’t know it was Fitch and S&P but I know the ratings agencies were present.
JG: And that they encouraged the city, they were supportive of the transactions?
KO: I don’t know that.
JG: And in fact it was these same ratings agencies that triggered the default in 2009 by the lowering of the city’s bond rating, correct?
KO: I know the ratings were lowered. I don’t know if it was S&P and Fitch.
JG: OK. You testified earlier that the CFO of the city Sean Werdlow took a job with SBS and that was approximately five months after the swaps were completed?
KO: Yes.
JG: And you testified that that raises a red flag, correct?
KO: It raises concern, yes.
JG: You testified that you spoke with the SEC about their involvement in investigating these matters and I believe in your deposition you said they were willing to have further discussions. Is that correct?
KO: Yes. Continue reading